Episode 5: The Employee Evangelist with Ida Støier

"I want to sell a Vision" 🔥🔥🔥

The Energy packed Episode 5 of The Unsung Heroes with Ida Støier is LIVE. 

🎙️Listen to the full episode on iTunes: https://apple.co/2YJMma6

🎙️Listen to the full episode on Spotify: https://spoti.fi/2zhHGO0

This one is for all leaders and managers looking for your inner fire and how to lead with passion and not compromise on your growth.

So many golden stories and lessons on how we fostered the strongest growth and culture in the early days in Pleo.

Ida, this was insane and you inspire me every time we speak, thank you for sharing your perspective and wisdom:

Useful timestamps in the podcast:

(9:15 ) The importance of a morning routine

(12:15) How to find your inner fire to lead others 

(16:45) How a burnout changed her life

(22:00) What to never compromise on

(27:20) The lesson from school which shaped her leadership

(30:00) The ultimate tip to hiring as a leader

Ida my friend, It was such a pleasure working with you at Pleo and can't wait to see what you do next.

#employeefirst #branding #storytelling #personaldevelopment

Transcript

spk_0:   0:14
This is a very special guest that I am very close with. Um, I worked third Pleo. She now kind of looks after partnerships at Cleo. Yeah, I'd love for you. Start by sharing a bit more of your story.

spk_1:   0:29
Yeah, I think that that questions also know where to begin. It's

spk_0:   0:33
a reflection, Pointcast. You gotta go deep into those emotions.

spk_1:   0:38
Don't worry, door that that's my forte. And no, I think my journey has actually been making a lot of sense when I reflect back on it. I think while I was on the journey for a lot of the time, it was more like, What the freak am I doing? Where my heading and why am I doing this? Went Teoh High School, which most people do do in in Denmark. And after that, I have a year off was working, but I was working in sales. Um, and I remember that in the first month or so, I was about to hang myself because I was so bad at it. It was such long hours. I had this American sales coach that was taking me into this little cave like Peter. Why have you not sold war today and he was just, like, constantly challenging me on Why, Why? Why? So it actually was a really, really good coaching experience. For my sake. A good coaching experience of that sense. That is also where you're, like, kind of Ah, tear everything apart and the and come out stronger. But in order to get there, it's Ah, it was a really tough time. Actually, I think

spk_0:   1:44
I can I before we continue. This is this gets interesting, right? So there's a big topic now. Women and sales versus men and sales, you know, coming out of school. Why sales for you, right off the gun, because I'm not speaking for everyone. But, you know, I I know there is a stigmatism, like a lot of especially women that I know they just don't go into sales. They think it's egotistical, a lot of male dominated, which it is, in essence.

spk_1:   2:09
But I think there's actually more to that story because I think this was my year after high school. So remember, I'm like, 1920 years old at this one going, uh, I can't believe that authority now, By the way, that's of the people listening to this.

spk_0:   2:23
Anyone missing it And I share almost one day apart birthdays. And we just both turned 30 less weight Saturday and Sunday. I'm gonna release this podcast, so we'll see. What? What? David actually gets up

spk_1:   2:37
mid mid march. But that's it. No, but the reason why I jumped into sales in the first place was also because I thought that this was like it wasn't a deliberate decision to what I want to spend my time on, per se. It was like, Okay, I think I'm going to university. So what do I want to do? Before that, I was the one. I want some money, and I wanna have a lot of fun. Uh, and honestly, back then, it was also a very accessible job if you didn't have experience. So I thought, you know, why not give it a go? Um, And during that time, I was also at the end. Thinking is sales something that I want to do and what what's in it for me? And how can I see myself in this in the long run, But its slave to the to the system that way are most of us creatures Off happened is that we see a lot of people going Ah Teoh to push you in a university degree. So that was the same me, I think looking back, I'm not sure I would have gone in exactly that direction. I went to Copenhagen Business School, spend extra six years studying, prolongs all of the studies because I was doing so much other stuff on the site. So I was constantly focused on my volunteer work, which I really, really left. And I think that's also part of my entrepreneurial journey is that I really love getting together with a bunch of super passionate, intelligent people with an idea and say, OK, we want to do this. How can we do this with just in resources you have in our hands? So in that regard is getting back to sales was actually something that I didn't discover as a riel opportunity or a desire. Until I was I should done with Copenhagen Business School because I think during university I was more focused on that. Oh, now I need to get, like, now, doing quote unquote a real job because now I have an academic re. Should I pursue a very corporate company and I was also actually having this. The thing off sales is that just sales I can quote unquote where I didn't really actually know how much strategy, psychology. You know what I can actually put into a sales role? Because I would say for me, it would be interesting selling anything. What I want to sell is I want to sell a vision. I want to sell some values. I want to sell something that can actually go in and have a real impact on somebody else's life. Ending up in a fintech set up has been a bit a bit random. Wasn't what I was planning from her. From the get go I was trying to establish Ah, start up with with two people at before joined Cleo. But I think we're free people. In an idea we wanted Teoh bring forward a new way of doing a personality test for for young people, anything that really spiked my interest again to that. Okay, either. Looking back, what have you been succeeding the most with? And when did you have the most fun? And then I actually figured out that it was during the months he worked. It was during that trying to put the startup, and it was when I was working in sales. Eso me. It was like, OK, the next real step for me would be to get into a startup. I prefer the early stage on, then work in and sales and take it from there. And that's what I've done in and William.

spk_0:   5:51
But then, this is interesting because, you know, I've been a lot of people at CBS, and there seems to be there isn't a cult, but there seems to be, you know, you go to CBS. You know, a lot of people are doing things on the side because it seems to be like, you know, the extracurricular is kind of something that you almost have to do to get a job because everyone else is doing it volunteering for you. Do you think being involved in so many different spectrums of I don't know if it was projects or whatever gave you that perspective? A lot of people that I know from CBS going to like management, consulting or it's quite a proven track, and I guess CBS is designed to kind of harvest those strong kind of profiles. But how do you go against the grain? And I don't know, You surrounded yourself with act CBS, but it sounds like you took a very different journey.

spk_1:   6:39
I think this again. Multiple factors playing into this. I definitely know a lot of management consultants, and that was also my radar for for some some time. But what I did actually was that I reached out to, um I'm very proactive s something that's also the reason why I'm in the position I am today is that if I want something or if I'm curious about something, I'm just going to reach out to people say, Hey, I think you have the notice that I want Do a spare five minutes with me,

spk_0:   7:09
Reach out. You're gonna, like, break down the wall. You're gonna like, completely bulldoze your way through it, just like sensor that won

spk_1:   7:16
best. True. That's true. Ah, but for the management consulting part, I should reach out to people in their Some of the top consultant sees that the thought sounded interesting, and then I actually got them on the phone. Ah, I asked him a lot of questions about what they're doing. How the culture is the work wax and the what they gained from having a Korean management consulting. And I was interviewing like five people, like millions of used for my for my own sake. I came to the conclusion that management consulting is not for me, especially not in a some of the big Corporates where I think it's Ah, it's a self awareness thing as well. It's not that I think I wouldn't enjoy it. I think I think it would be great fun till it to a great extent. But I'm also very aware about the fact that I don't fit in anywhere, and I'm completely fine with that, first of all, but I believe that some of my strings would be not well enough, appreciated in a very why would that would use the word strict but more formal set up. Maybe I can put it like that.

spk_0:   8:23
It makes lot of sense, but let's zoom back for a quick second. You know, we call it the other day, but I would love for you to walk me through and for everyone's was listening. I wanna walk you to walk me into your morning routine because I think that defines a lot of people. I can't wake up in the mornings. I'll be really honest. I'm rubbish at it. But because I do believe from what you told me that you know, you're you're rituals in the morning kind of find your date right, that that is super protected for you. And it gives you a lot of energy. So in love for you to walk me through that and how that started.

spk_1:   8:56
Well, I would say now that we all on the lock down, it is becoming even longer. Because now have you had more time, Teoh? Actually, it it just to spend time on ah, nurturing myself. Now you and I had and we had a funny conversation about it, which stemmed from the fact that if you could you roll out of bed 1/4 to 9. But I would say for me and morning would seem is extremely important, mainly just because of the fact of having a routine, but also because in the morning that that's where I'm clears in my mind. And I also need to feel grounded for the rest of the day. But it's also important for me to say that I'm not fanatic about it. So meaning that you know, if I have mornings where I only get to finish, Ah, one out of five points, that's completely fine. Or if I need to rush to something that's also completely fine. And I think that's also what I wanna for people to take away is that it's really important to establish good routines and have some anchors in your life. But don't be fanatic about it, because, you know every schedule will always fall apart that sometimes. And that's completely fine back to your question about what I do in the mornings. So I like to actually wake up. I bought this amazing at wake up that's waking me up by, uh, soft light and and birds. So So, Actually, just having a calm wake up instead of having the alarm go often that has, ah made a huge impact on my mornings. Then I go out either make like a tea or coffee. Whatever I feel like, then I do my meditation. I do know that as a guided meditation, meaning that I have headphones on and then I need to be ah, physically active before a summer workday. So either going to the gym, going forward for, Ah, run here or doing somewhere some workouts at home can actually also do it. And then last. I, of course, besides this I shower eat. But that's

spk_0:   10:52
really actually showered. It's something. Okay?

spk_1:   10:55
He was about to say that. That's That's a big surprise. Uh, but then I read eso I always have a few books on my night stand. Um, I actually prefer to jackal two free books at the same time. Just so when your people, you could pick up something else and then I have some books that's good for mornings and then some books. That's good for night, in my opinion. But I read every morning. Some mornings is lily one page and other mornings it's Ah, it's 20 minutes again, depending on the schedule.

spk_0:   11:27
Cool. Okay, that's fast forward then. Now get stuck, Sisters, that you you and my world collide appeal. I remember when he came in and you were just like a huge ball of energy. So, like, you know, where does that come from? And personally knowing you as a good friend, you know, you're where I see you as an employee of Angelis is because, like you said before, you kind of just when you go after something, you own it and you like to carve it into something and you know, you don't look, you don't really take no for an answer, But you just you know, you really I've never I've seen very few people give it as much energy and intensity is you get. And I think you and I both have been, you know, on the losing end, sometimes with me. Overdo it and we burn out. And I mean, I'm sure we could talk about after hours. Where did that come

spk_1:   12:14
from? Yeah, it is actually a question. I'm asking myself quite often, to be honest, as vision, now that I'm also working as a manager. It's a question I asked myself because I'm curious about the fact that I feel this extreme inner fire. It's it's actually hard to describe. It just feels like this itch, and I can help it. And I'm curious. Can I spike that? And other people as well. Oh, how does this actually feel for other people? You know, what does it dry feel feel like? And is it the same for you as it is for me, for instance. I don't know, but I think I've always had this crazy energy. I think if I want something, I'm definitely going to get it on. If I experience, Yeah, I wouldn't say failure, but if I experienced that, I'm having going through a rough patch, for instance. Or if things are not really working out the way that I wanted to, that just fuels my fire even more meaning that I thrive it being in a success and when things appeal. But But when things are when the office against me, I just get this inner feeling off, I need to get through this. So I think a lot of it is actually just also related to my personality that I'm extremely outgoing. Ah, extremely curious. Um, and I think if you're very, very curious about something, you'll dick until you figure out. What's this about? And nothing for me for assemble in a setting like like Cleo. I think I've just been granted all the right Ah, Cannon said surroundings that just fostered that. I could be extremely curious about myself as a sales person. What can I do with this starting the apartment channel. You know, Could I take this from a from a Just a list of my excel. She to actually like a bulletproof concept. You know, actually, being on a mission where I feel like I can use every fiber in my body to see if this can work. That that that it just does something to do my energy. But I also do believe that a lot of this comes down to the mindset that I've developed, especially over that Maybe last five years, I've always been interested in a psychology ice. You want to be like a therapist when I was a child and

spk_0:   14:33
even the therapist, that would be a being 10 sessions.

spk_1:   14:37
That would be some intense sessions, that's for sure. But no, My point is that I really, truly and utterly believe that my thoughts did take everything around me. So meaning that I have a positive mindset, I'll become even more positive. Ah, and if I believe in something and if I am determined that this would be a success, it will be a success, not meaning that I don't doubt myself. I do that almost every day. But I'm not letting those doubts and negative thoughts. Um, takeover. So at the end of the day, I always fall asleep knowing that, you know, it's all about how I perceive things again. For me is like a problem is not really about the problem is about how I think about the problem, you know, and I truly believe that if you actually know that you are capable, offset in the direction for your whole life and the way you work and everything around you, you become way more motivated and driven because you know that you're in charge so that something is actually the thing that's gonna make a difference. I'm not waiting for you or for someone else to get me out an opportunity, because I know that if I want something, it's solely up to me.

spk_0:   15:53
Where do you place the balance between? You know, the typical like work life balance. You know, personally, you know, when I love what I do, you just over invest into it because it's just part of the work life. I don't really distinguish very well. And on a personal level in my personal life, definitely there's been sacrifices but it hasn't been perceived personally as a sacrifice is just the way it is. How do you balance that? And do you need to? And because you get a lot of energy like, I mean, I get a lot of energy from my work, right? And that's why I like to do it. And that's why I remember when you, me and ML, especially in the early that would work insane hours. It was insane, but we didn't do it for the pain. He did it because it was like a mission. And it was like this Many call that we had and it just felt great to work with amazing people, right? And that would be I got a lot of energy off that, But, like, what about you? Is where do you find that?

spk_1:   16:46
Ah, and that's Ah, that's a good question. I think in the last year, actually, is that that's where I found the balance. So, yeah, as you also know, how can I face a burn out at the end of what's 2018 which actually cost me to not be able to work for, like, ah, 23 months, which was like and most brutal time of my life.

spk_0:   17:06
It was brutal manner. I was really upset about that. I remember it was intense.

spk_1:   17:11
Yeah, and I think I didn't know how to balance it. You know, I couldn't. And I remember people around me also saying that honestly, you're becoming a bit boring because the only thing that's on your mind is Pleo and the your colleagues, And I think I didn't just didn't really listen to if things around me, I didn't listen to my body, that's for sure. And so at one point, my body's made me listen. And I think it's been a blessing in disguise, meaning that I think I've come up so much stronger. S o much more focused. So much clear on Why am I actually doing this? And why am I doing this? But also how I'm doing this, Uh, because I think that the why has been been there, and it's the same as before, but I want to do what I do in Pleo and the other projects that I am also like to embark on it from time to time. I want to do it while taking care of myself and nothing. That that's what I figured out was that I actually wanna be someone where I can say to myself, I'm living my best life Ah, of course, that's Ah, very subjective. But but for me, that means that I have a thriving career. I'm doing what I love on a daily basis, but it also means that I have a time for my personal relationships, my friends and my family. It also means that I prioritise my workouts and pry prioritize my morning routine, prioritize reading and the being in nature, which I love. And I think that that was my issue boob before, though when I face the burnout is that I compromised. I escaped the workouts up, skipping the nature. I was skipping my friends and family, and that meant that. Then I didn't have the capacity to pull through so much at work because I wasn't fulfilled. I think a seizures maybe, like a water glass. So I was I was only, you know, pouring water out of the glass. I wasn't putting things into it anymore. So I truly believe that you can work 70 hours my week and still, uh, make maintain a clear mind and not face it. Burn out if you also remember to prioritize what's important to you. And that's, of course, up to the individual to figure out

spk_0:   19:26
who it touches on. Really. I mean, I burned out twice, maybe not as harsh is you with it, but I'm the interesting part for me was when I did it. Clio, my values. What I thought was important to me was also a kind of a reflection of the values of what I believe Pleo Waas. Because we had those pillars and I just believed it and work didn't feel like work. You mentioned like, you know, we would like I mentioned in another podcast as well. You would leave work and you just couldn't stop talking about work because it was just fascinating. It was just there was this weird, like I just can't stop thinking about it because there's so much potential here and it's super exciting. And then, you know, when I decided to leave in and at those two months when I left, you know, it was like, almost maybe like your moment to, like, chill for a second and reflect, and I think I realized there what's important to me. What will I not sacrifice on? How do I make decisions? And I think those are the three things that were difficult to like. See when I was in Tunnel Bennett vision, but it's no one's fault. I loved it, so it was my choice. But like now, for example, like in the financial independence, making money is like a means to an end. It's like I want to use that to do something else with it, like adventure, travelling. I'm not that, but also like building something. So but this podcast and a few other projects you know, UNP putting that for me first. And you know, I'm exploring going back into a bit of work again. But that's more like a secondary that complements the primary, and I don't know if you have to be in a certain position. Maybe you've worked for a few years. You've gained expertise in a specific field so you can execute on it. But I like that dynamic where I think the strongest potential employees evangelists are people that choose to work somewhere by association because they love the vision, the mission. It resonates like I can add and I get back. But then it doesn't compromise on like, but I'm building something else that's also important to me, and that's my long term. You know, this is a short term, you know, you're renting me is an employee because I can deliver value and I love being here. But the second it doesn't agree with me anymore. It's okay, I'll walk away. It's not like a negative or positive, and that's the normalization for me is association because you want to. And I think when you're d in it, when you are relying on like one income stream, I mean you don't diversify your income streams. It's much more difficult to walk away. And it's also it's like a family, like we had it, Cleo. But that changes as to become a larger company, right? And it needs to. I think I mentioned it several times on this podcast. If needed to will go arrest, the company could never grow its tail. And if there's lots of things to think, but it's like, don't ever compromise on you and, like always invest in yourself and that's a really hard one person. You know, I'm still struggling

spk_1:   22:00
and the thing is a never ending journey. To be honest, I don't feel I nailed it at all. But that's also because I'm very aware that, you know my priorities is probably not the same in five years, meaning that then I need to do something else or make other compromises or figure out what's the was the thing that I can't compromise on, for instance, and that and I think that's also just important to remember. And I think that's also sometimes just a thing that can give you that slack is like saying to yourself that things are always changing and that's the beauty of it, you know? So don't try and and that's also why I was so important for me to emphasize. The fact about my morning would seem is that it's not something that I'm fanatic about it, something a treasure, and it's something that I really wanna prioritize and I do. But it should never be something where it becomes a negative. If I didn't do it or you know Oh, now beating myself up for and I didn't see my I didn't have enough time tonight to see my friends, which actually I know I want to and you know, that's also part of my scope. Oh, I think I think you can stress ourselves so much by putting up all these things that we want to do. We should do to be like a wholesome person. But I think stressing over the fact that you're not doing something or you should be doing something is actually worse than saying OK, tonight, I'm just saying, Fuck it. I'm gonna wash that place all night and not go to that event, not see my family. You know, I think that's Ah, that's at least what I've learned that not to beat myself up about all the things that's not playing out in the way that I thought it would be.

spk_0:   23:36
Yeah, so maybe one more question. So going back a bit, remember you said, Yeah, that that manager in sales that was quite good at kind of pushing you and asking you why Why? Why have you ever had a great manager? And you know, this is a question. I've asked everybody on the show.

spk_1:   23:54
I definitely had a lot of people around me that I found great inspiration. And I would say as you know, being a working in a startup, like like we have, especially in the early days. It's not like you have that manager relationship because you're just a team and then you're faking it out. And then along the way, somebody becomes the manager on. Then we take it from there both thing. Some of the most inspiring people has actually been more how to say that people on my own level, meaning that my pierce, I think you've been a great inspiration for me to like again. Just you can do this, you know, Don't give a shit about what other people think. Let's try give it a go. Very inspired also by Mariza Dimension in terms of the structure and how valuable it is to make sure that you have a good structure around you because my natural for forces like the energy is to drive. Is that the duo? I'm the execute er, so if you say let's go over here just like okay, I'm running. But my weakness can be that I am not really good, always documenting the things that I do or putting things into, like a good structure, meaning that it could be hard for me. Actually, Teoh help Sometimes others, which is my main job Now, to replicate some of this stuff or these get inspired by it because I'm executing and then I'm, you know, onto the next thing. You know, I'm not really the one sitting and and making Ah ah, documentation about the steps that took what worked, What didn't work? I'm a gut feeling a person, but I've been very inspired about people around me to take in more structure and hands down being more structures. It being my most truck structured well, which have focused on in the last couple of years, has just enhanced my work immensely.

spk_0:   25:42
And I actually mentioned on a previous but maybe it was chance, remember? But I'm I think between you, me and ml what I loved in the early days as we both knew each other strengths and weaknesses so we could play off that. So, like, for example, we would know. I know exactly where I can push it on things, and I know exactly where she won't want to do this. And then it was vice versa. So I remember that trio was very strong and then I even remember a scenario. It's just popped into my head. I remember a few years ago you, me and Martina, we sat in that glass room in the founders office, and then we wanted to execute a plan for Christmas presents for the Clio customs. And we had, like, a list of 100 and we were like, What could we do? And then we bought Finkel horns, right? I remember, remember. So But remember, we sat in this meeting room, it was you be and Martinez Martinez much more structured. And you me when I move a little boom. But we, like, devised a plan we assigned who was gonna execute. And like, the next day, it was all like, bang bang guy. And then within, like, three days, everything was ordered, the boxes were on the way, and then everything was done. That was like, you pitted me of, like, knowing who used around yourself with knowing who you can depend on for certain things And like, you know, when those handovers happened like Okay, Geeta has that task. You're, like, 100% comfortable. I know it's gonna do a good job. I don't have to worry. It's on my plate. It's gone. I know it's gonna like it is going to live for X. And I guess I think when you can develop that dynamic in a working culture, I think that's amazing. But sustaining it is difficult.

spk_1:   27:13
No, anything, anything? Yes, all right. And I think actually touching upon something that's also interesting for me as a person because I had, I would say, in school, especially the younger, ah, younger days. No, um, I'm still younger, but they're not to be here to be a bit more serious. I was a was a perfectionist, like and I still am Teoh degree today that I wanted to deliver the best results. You know, I want to be 100% of my targets when I was a sales person. Now I want to have the best team and then in the whole world, you know, I want oh, do I wanna have extraordinary results. That's ah, that's for sure. But I think back when I was younger, I ended up seeing it. Having this perfections are reviewing things that actually made me end up taking, you know, sole charge of things that I'd be like, OK, if I want the best results, I'm doing this on my own, you know? Ah, you know, I'm not really satisfied with the group work here, So I'm gonna rewrite this or Oh, don't bother. You don't have to To do this, I can do it, you know, meaning that in group settings I thought that OK, I was actually being good again, quote unquote, because I was taking on the big workload often or willing to. But what I reflect on back now is that that that that's not feasible. Especially not in a working college ship. Because first of all, nobody wanted to rock themselves with a person who is like, I'm doing this because they know that it's because I probably doubting their skill sets will come and seize to finish the job. And I don't want to be that person first of all, but also because I've himself aware. So I know I'm not the best at everything. I'm in the best of some things for sure, but I'm definitely not the best at everything. So if I was now having the same approach, that it's only gonna be good if it's done by me, I would be a huge failure. And I would definitely be where I'm at today. So it's definitely about surrounding us over the with the right people. Yeah.

spk_0:   29:18
You know, I want you to listen to the podcast that with funds, cause hands, had a little section on it with you. And I remember, and he spoke about like when you hired him into that team. You know, hands came with a lot of experience on that side of doing those types of sales. And I know that, you know, you and me when we both started managing quite early on, like those that PR team, we have no clue what we were doing, but you have working it out. But I had a lot about what kinds said about you was like you acknowledged the Hey, look, I'm not the expert. You actually probably no way more than me, But, like, how can I work with you to like, you know, I know that you're better than me and this guy. I'm better in different areas. But you're probably better on ex wives that how can we work together to fuel that I get that into the team right and no ML and I have super line on this one you're hiring, and I'm very confident. He was like, I love the idea of managers or just leadership that always strives to hire better than themselves. This this constant fear like I want to protect my job and I've never I've never felt it, and I've never, you know, by default. You almost make yourself redundant. But that's an amazing position to be in, because then you can like little, learned something new, and I could progress somewhere else in the company. But I don't know how many people really take that position. And, you know, you do start defending your role and I get it. But if don't like, that's kind of like where you were. And now that you're running a new team with partnerships, how do you hire what's? Your process, though,

spk_1:   30:44
is definitely the same that I want to hire people. That's ah better than me at least, people that I see how the potential to become better than me, though I can. I can coach them into something, but also knowing that they have some ingredients that, no matter how good of a manager. I would be that's not able to create. You know, some people just have, you know, some awesome X factor, and I think that's it. That's really, really beautiful. But I But I'm totally aligned, I think might my I think I would be that I would feel like such a huge success if I could stand at some point and have, like a full team of, ah, amazing people that I truly hand on heart feel are 100% better than I am. And I'm not afraid of being redundant because I truly believe that if I could produce, it seemed that's way better than me. I am doing such a good job that that's a really valuable skill that's also needs to be done again and again in different settings and again, it's also so much more. Ah is also keeping me on my chose to bring in people that's smarter than me, meaning that I think it's a lot about context. So I think a lot of the startup scene, I think everyone's a line that we want the best employees and that might be someone who's smarter than you, which is a great thing so I think, is more if you if you're in a context where fears ah, dominant way of leading or you have your own manager is definitely talking a lot about, you know, prestige within the company. Or how long have you been there and ex wives set. So if it becomes thes hiking factors, as I call it, then I would see you could be a potential manager that would be afraid of hiring people. That's smarter than you because you have a feeling from the hair. I key that it's up. Management doesn't want to be challenged Echo. You will not hire people that would challenge you. But I think in the setting that we're in where everybody's actually wanting to be challenged and wanting to come up with new ways of working. It's a no brainer that we should, of course, have people in that says smarter than us.

spk_0:   32:42
Yeah, it's a message that I would love Teoh get more out there, I don't know and I can't speak from a position where I do know. But I just from stories that I hear from horror stories like people that are so good and they just they get pushed out because I like, you know, screw this, like, you know, fighting for my back. You're not. You're not allowing me to kind of push the results because they're trying to making me follow a process that is just was designed by someone so long ago who was so out of touch with the front line. How much have things revolving? I don't know. It's an interesting Let's split this out. Let's put this up random, Random run. You have a question for me. Let's let's this, if you what's like a random question that you've always wanted to ask me about? Even even about this project that I'm working with, the podcast or anything else?

spk_1:   33:24
Yeah, I think I selected Certify back the one about that in a drive. So why do you think you are such a driven person?

spk_0:   33:32
You know, I think I want the other podcasts way Spoke about boarding school. So this is a weird one for me, right? So I went to boarding school when I was 14 I left from the Caribbean and it was all because of Harry Potter because I wanted to go hard words like I can't you know, keep

spk_1:   33:47
my captains know I was that I really realized that I couldn't go talk words.

spk_0:   33:52
I fell in love with the beautiful story, and I really wanted to go to school in England and get a wand like I'm not even kidding you. It was a bit of a inside joke, but then when I went to boarding school, it was a very like a wake up call. Like, you know, you're on your damn own like, you know, your family is not there to support you directly. Of course they're they're like a call away. But you know, I loved and I quite quickly realized that I just love this independence and inner just need to make things function or else you can. You can come home from school and cry in your bed because you're missing your family and you're scared and you have nothing. But I definitely did that for a few weeks. I'm not going to even pretend right. But then I just realized that went by doing that. Nothing's changing. And then I think through boarding school I just became super independent and it became super selfish. To be honest, I just focused on building myself and protecting myself toe to build. And I became like senior Prefect and I was going for head of school like I became Super eight. Mr. I just want it all. And then when I went into the world of work after I did my studies, um, I think I quite quickly when I when I was in my last year of uni and Edinburgh, my parents were like, You're such an introvert. Go on, do tour Guiding. Remember this so well, because my mom was like, Go make some money to pay for your beers, you know, standards, you know, supply and demand. And I learned to tour guide and I got damn left it. I learned to public speak. It was horrible. I remember my 1st 10 tours were so shape. I was scared. I was speaking in front of 30 people. It was a free tour. But then I learned this thing. We're like, you know, I like improv strikes, loved speaking dynamics, and I got a lot of energy out of that. And I think sales happened for me by accident. Like maybe, like maybe like you because I was a scientist, right? I started pharmaceuticals and then I jumped into sales because of an entrepreneur who was launching a startup. Needed some help while I was at UCL, and I think this is cool. And then I just like the idea where you can combine things like I was combining a bit of my analytical stuff from science, my personality from the tour guiding and then, you know, getting a cool product out there. And that was a perfect storm for me, and that's where I got it. But then I also realized what I with the ship team that I don't like. I don't get energy. It is about who you work with. And right now, this fold employees evangelist podcast It's like I just from Pleo. I've been infected with this vision like employees are not being put really. First, people are saying they are, but it's not true, like there is amazing people and companies that nobody knows anything about, and not to highlight them a superstars or, you know, influencers, but just a highlight. Themis people who if more people met them, it would have an impact on people's last, and there is something special about the pool and again. It's not because someone is successful or not. It's more about they just love what they do, and there's something special about that. When you sack it against, like mental health, why are people going to work unhappy? But maybe they're making a great salary, but maybe they have commitments. They have a family mortgage to think, to pay. You can't just make things happen all the time. But I admire people who I understand, like building something for themselves while adding value to everything around them. It's this selfless, selfish approach, and I I'm really interested in that, and that's what gives me energy. That's the first time I've been asked that question.

spk_1:   37:12
It is a good answer, but

spk_0:   37:13
this was been super cool. I love talking to you about this kind of stuff. Anyone who doesn't know Anita, I'm sure anyone in Copenhagen listening to this will probably definitely know her. But you know, I have the hugest amount of respect for her. I've had the honor of working with her and I would definitely work there again. But it is the energy and it's just no knowing where everyone stands. Um, and I honestly can't wait to see what you end up anywhere in the future. Regardless,

spk_1:   37:39
languages, My friends, it was being on here. And as you mentioned, we could talk about this forever.

spk_0:   37:45
Tune in for the next episode.

spk_1:   37:47
That the tester? Uh, no. I think it is a topic that steals my heart. So if anybody wanted to reach out on and have a chat about it